The Angels Did What?

Summary

As a follow-up to 1 Peter, we take a moment to focus in on Satan's plans to disrupt God's creation.

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Class Date:
August 21, 2011 //
Teacher:
Length:
63 min (14.5 MB) //
Download:
2011_08_21_Seven_Letters.mp3

Scripture References


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The Angels Did What?

Additional Notes

Prayer verse: 1 Peter 4:12-14

Why study this topic?

  • It is relevant to our Seven Letters study series.  This set of pre- and post-flood events are mentioned in 1 Peter, 2 Peter and Jude.
  • Class members have asked questions about this topic, and deserve honest, Biblical answers.
  • These historical facts occupy a prominent place in these letters because there are similar events poised to take place again, perhaps in our lifetime.

What are we to do in the face of Satan's plans?

  • Understand and promote covenant marriage
  • Understand that we, as baptized believers in Jesus Christ, have made a commitment to be saved from the corruption of our culture - including sexual purity and morality in marriage
  • Do not be ignorant of the truth found in God's Word - be aware of Satan's schemes, while the rest of the world denies the supernatural


Comments

I finally tracked down the book this lesson reminded me of which I read as a child. (I don't know how my mother found so many of the obscure works that she did to try to reinforce Biblical values in my life.) Madeleine L'engle is an author most known for A Wrinkle in Time, but she wrote other fiction including several works which visit Genesis-era fantastical reenactment, much as Adventures in Odyssey did on the radio with some of their time-travelling episodes.

Many Waters, published in 1986, is the particular book which theoretically expands upon what the pre-flood earth was like, including the nephilim. It is highly theoretical on most portrayals of course, but one point which was a central theme of the book was the open approach to this reality of angels intermarrying with women, and Noah's family being the only opposition to the accepted social structure. I most vividly recall the description it gave for one of the women at the time she was in labor with the giant offspring she was so proud to have conceived because society by that point universally recognized the inevitably powerful nephilim for what they were. But she was in the greatest of pain for the unnatural size of what was in her belly as it came time to be born.

I don't know if there are any other literary works out there which touch upon this part of Genesis, but I want to point out that it is not only Ken and one commentator from 1922 which have in modern times understood this passage to mean what it does. And I have since reading that book been under the same impression without ever a suspicion that it could be otherwise. 'Sons of God went to the daughters of humans (NIV)' spells it out pretty well for me without even having to refer to the New Testament when I look at Job's reference for what the sons of God were by contrast. I recently heard Steve Gregg, who has a call-in show on KCBC here in the bay area I listen to while driving occasionally, refute a caller who asked about this very topic. He purported the human-to-human interpretation with the same evidence Ken addressed with Jesus referring to angels not marrying. He didn't obviously make a distinction between angels in heaven vs. angels cast out of heaven. But that caller lets me know we are not alone in our supernatural interpretations which fly in the face of those who argue against it for no better reason than that it is a preposterous notion, or angels don't have genitals, or a good God wouldn't let it happen, or women can only be impregnated by men (except in the case of Mary. :P)

I am glad we looked at the cross-references about this topic, because that 'likewise' word in Jude had not hit me as so relevant prior and it leaves me even better prepared to address this reality in the future.

On the topic of fallen angels and the flood my question is:
Since the flood was God’s way of removing extreme evil off the earth and the angels who left their proper domain were put away into everlasting chains of darkness (Jude 1:6 ) How do giants still appear after the flood? If these angels (200 according to the book of Enoch) were bound in chains, they could not possibly mate with women again after the flood. It’s hard to believe that a second group of angels would be allowed (or want) to repeat the same offense. And if they did it a second time, what keeps them from perpetually producing more wicked offspring? Thereby making God’s flood judgement seem ineffective. This may be one of those things I have to hang on the wall until all things are seen clearly in heaven. Any ideas on why the flood didn't seem to work to contain wayward angels?

Steve Quayle has an excellent book called "Genesis 6 Giants". If anyone would like to borrow it just let me know. Although I don't agree with all his ideas, he presents a good case for Greek/Roman mythology actually being based on historical reality and the biblical account of fallen angels. He also states that Nimrod being a mighty hunter before the Lord means that he was a hunter of men's souls. He was more into subjugation of humans. Very interesting but that's a topic for another time.

That's a provocative insight you bring up about Nimrod, Jeri! I always compared Nimrod to my state's governator who held office prior to 2011. Society tends to elevate physical prowess in considering leadership potential even in our supposed age of enlightenment.

Regarding the fallen angels, I want to place on the table the uncertainty I have as to whether the flood coincided directly with God's sentence in the spiritual realm. It would make sense in an epic novel plot of course. However, we're stuck with seeing '...in those days, AND ALSO AFTERWARD' along with the obvious existence of giants after the flood. I do want to note my perception at present that God never declared the reason for the flood event being to halt the angels, but rather to judge mankind. The waters of the flood would of course be as useless in affecting spiritual entities as they were in drowning the fish, so that in itself doesn't appear to suit judgment of angels. I also see that when God cursed both man and Satan in the garden, Satan was not immediately set to his lowest point like man was at that time. Whether his lowest point was after Christ made His redemptive sacrifice or is yet to come at the end of this age when his dominion will be taken away, I can see that the timing for God's judgment against man and Satan coincided in its start but not in its finish.

So at this point I cannot assume that the angels in question were bound prior to or at the same time as the world flood. For another example of offset from the flood, we see that Leviathan and Behemoth were two species which remained alive following the flood, as described in Job. Yet as told in Psalm 74:14, God later crushed the heads of Leviathan and gave him as food in the wilderness.

Does anyone have other passages which might help to solidify this topic?

Good points Joshua. A modern day Nimrod that comes to mind is Vladimir Putin. A KGB trained tough guy who loves his macho photo ops.

Yes it seems Satan’s judgement wasn’t immediate as he was still able to present himself along with the sons of God in Job 1:6. Did he still look like an angel of light or did he reflect his fallen state?

How historical is the Book of Enoch for instance? Of course it’s not God-inspired and therefore not in the cannon of scripture, but might it be historically accurate? I feel man is devolving and was more intelligent closer to the creation. He was perfectly able to record events like we do today. So besides the Bible, what other ancient manuscripts can be looked at as historically accurate? Anyway Enoch fleshes out much of the pre-flood story in regards to his interaction with the watchers/ fallen angels who knew their time on earth was about up. There are a few verses in the bible I wish God gave us more detail on like Gen 5:24 Enoch walked with God then he was not. That’s extraordinary!

I recall Many Waters reflecting on the passing of Enoch without death as something akin to what happened to Elijah. The first Bible given to me as a child had some pictures in it, and one of them depicted that flaming chariot tearing upward into the sky bearing Elijah, with Elisha down on the ground watching. How epic. Enoch, Elijah, and those in the church who will 'not all sleep' (1 Corinthians 15:51) seem to share the unexpired bodily transition past their place on earth.

My first thought about Satan's appearance in Job is in weighing the fact that Paul many centuries later connotes a present tense when he shares that warning/insight (2 Corinthians 11:14) against the probability that it would do no good for him to disguise himself in front of God or all the other angels who have no ignorance of his true identity and fall. So God either prevented him from that kind of charade in court, or from what I see Satan still has the ability to either use disguise or not at his discretion.

I completely agree with your deduction regarding the decaying of the universe which does not disclude all flesh including mankind. Even as our children are taught in school that mankind is becoming more evolved, using modern lifespans and population number compared to the past as evidence, I note the plain evidence that the gene pool is becoming more and more diluted with each generation. Major birth defects now result when closely related genes reproduce. Machinery, injections, and drugs are now necessary to maintain an average length of life which are recorded in Old Testament periods as late as King David (Psalm 90:10) without such technology. And as for the development of technology, if that is a reflection of increased intelligence then I may as well put all of the home runs made in any past world series together with those in the current one and claim that this is the year the most home runs have been made. If the world had all existence and record of current technology removed tomorrow, I wonder how long it would take to rediscover fire alone.